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FediForum 2024 is almost here! Flipboard CEO @mike catches up with conference co-organizer and Dazzle Labs CEO @J12t to get a taste of top-of-mind topics for fediverse stewards, including how this space can cross the chasm into the mainstream. It’s a new episode of Dot Social, the first podcast about the open social web.

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Flipboard · Moving the Fediverse Forward at FediForum and Beyond, with Johannes Ernst of Dazzle Labs - FlipboardWith Threads saying it will federate this year, FediForum comes at a time of growing curiosity and promises juicy topics and demos. 

@Flipboard @mike @J12t Awesome person as a guest! Also, happy the show is back.

@damon @Flipboard @J12t thank you! I think this Fediforum is going to be super interesting.

@mike @damon @Flipboard @J12t It’s a great podcast, every episode has been fascinating to listen!

Is there any plan to run an episode, or even several, on some of the issues that are documented within the Fediverse? In particular, the racism that pushed many Black users out of the platform, the reply guy problem (I’m considering stopping publishing on Mastodon because of that), or the many moral panics targeted at projects a vocal, but toxic, minority doesn’t understand?

@mike @damon @Flipboard @J12t I’m all on board with the Fediverse and its philosophy. But these problems can severely hamper its growth, hence why I think they need to be discussed and addressed.

Of course, those are just suggestions!

@o_simardcasanova @mike @Flipboard @J12t anyways these are great points and suggestions. Have you listened to our podcast https://wedistribute.org/series/decentered/ ? You can listen to it on most platforms. We touch on several of the points you mentioned on different episodes @decentered

We DistributeThe Decentered Podcast by We Distribute
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@o_simardcasanova @mike @Flipboard @J12t Thank you for asking the important questions and highlighting these issues. I love #DotSocial but it does often look with a rose coloured lens and ignores some of the negative & harsh realities of the Mastodon subculture which can and will have negative impacts on the bright future that’s always discussed. They touched on big companies being able to shutout projects but neglected to state how many projects have been shutdown and or severely altered due to the vocal minority of Mastodon. It gives devs the impression they can simply build without issue and that’s not reality. Also, a future that doesn’t really have Black and Brown people is not a bright one.

social.wedistribute.orgWe Distribute
@Olivier Simard-Casanova
Is there any plan to run an episode, or even several, on some of the issues that are documented within the Fediverse? In particular, the racism that pushed many Black users out of the platform, the reply guy problem (I’m considering stopping publishing on Mastodon because of that), or the many moral panics targeted at projects a vocal, but toxic, minority doesn’t understand?

These aren't necessary problems of the whole Fediverse. Mastodon maybe, but not the whole Fediverse. Just because Mastodon's self-moderation capabilities are limited to mute and block, doesn't mean this goes for all the other Fediverse projects just the same.

Just to give you one example: Here on Hubzilla, I've got 17 general interaction permission settings, each with multiple values to choose from. I could even limit who is allowed to reply to my posts to:
  • everyone, authenticated or not
  • everyone who is authenticated (this is the default)
  • all Hubzilla users, but nobody on any other connected platform/project (Diaspora*, Mastodon, the rest of the Fediverse etc.)
  • everyone on the same hub as the main instance of my channel (hub.netzgemeinde.eu)
  • all my connections, accepted by me or not
  • only my accepted connections
  • only users whom I explicitly grant that permission
  • only myself

The other 16 settings have at least the last seven of these options, sometimes all eight.

And that's only Hubzilla and only a part of it. (streams) goes even further than that. If you want a safe haven social network, and you don't absolutely have to be mollycoddled with maximum ease-of-use, then (streams) could be your safe haven. And yes, (streams) is part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon if you want to stay in contact with your old acquaintances.

In general, if you're discontent with both 𝕏 and Mastodon, the remaining alternatives aren't only Threads and Bluesky. The Fediverse is not only Mastodon, and the non-Mastodon Fediverse is not just simply Mastodon with more characters and a different UI. There are places in the Fediverse that can do things beyond most Mastodon users' imagination.

About the Mastodon users who completely flipped their shit upon the Bridgy Fed Bluesky bridge announcement, and every last one of them was on Mastodon: I've taken a closer look at their behaviour. They seemed fully convinced that they know everything about the Fediverse, but even some of those who had joined in November, 2022 apparently also thought that the Fediverse is only Mastodon, and none of them really knew how far the Fediverse actually stretches.

Proof: There was a lot of demanding the Fediverse be ActivityPub-only with no bridges to anywhere whatsoever. What these people actually meant was for the Fediverse to stay ActivityPub-only.

What they don't know, however: The Fediverse isn't ActivityPub-only right now. It wasn't at that point. And it has never been. Hubzilla runs on Zot6, and it's bridged to ActivityPub. (streams) runs on Nomad, and it's bridged to ActivityPub. Until recently, Friendica ran on DFRN, and it was bridged to ActivityPub. By that logic, all instances of all these three projects would have to be Fediblocked.

In fact, the Fediverse itself started long before ActivityPub. Friendica, the oldest current member of the Fediverse, dates back to 2010. The term "Fediverse" was first used in 2012. ActivityPub, on the other hand, became a W3C-appointed standard in 2018 and was first used in 2017. No, not by Mastodon. Hubzilla was faster by two months.

CC: @Olivier Simard-Casanova @Mike McCue @Flipboard @Johannes Ernst

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joinfediverse.wikiWhat is Hubzilla? - Join the Fediverse

@jupiter_rowland There’s no discussion that the Fediverse goes beyond Mastodon and ActivityPub, you’re 100% correct to remind this. Personally, I would even consider Bluesky as part of the Fediverse.

What I meant was that as the largest platform on the Fediverse, what happens on Mastodon sets the tone for the Fediverse more broadly, at least partially. This is that worried me, as there is this vocal, and toxic, minority on Mastodon that has very few limits.

@jupiter_rowland My worry is that this minority gives a poor image of the Fediverse, especially on more mainstream platforms such as Threads.

And the problem is that once an image has solidified, it’s really hard to change it.