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#FediverseIsNotMastodon
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Replied in thread
@JustBob Discord has completely warped the term "server" for entire generations of Internet users. On Discord, "server" means "chatroom".
In the Fediverse, "server" doesn't mean "chatroom". It means "server". A computer.
For example, a rack computer with no screen and no keyboard and no mouse bolted into a server rack at a data centre.
Or an old laptop that someone had lying around or a Raspberry Pi mini-computer running at someone's home, connected to their landline.
On each one of these, a big or small Twitter can be running (Mastodon).
Or a wholly different Twitter (Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Calckey, Firefish, Iceshrimp, Sharkey, Catodon, Meisskey, Tanukey, Neko...).
(Here's the first important new thing for you to learn about the Fediverse: The Fediverse is not only Mastodon.)
Or a Facebook with a side of a blog and a cloud server (Friendica, (streams), Forte).
(Here's the second important new thing for you to learn about the Fediverse: The Fediverse is not only short-form microblogging. Look at this comment. Look at what I've done. Embedded links. Bold type. Impossible on Mastodon. But possible elsewhere in the Fediverse.)
Or a Facebook meets WordPress meets Google Cloud Services meets even more stuff on top (Hubzilla; this is where I am).
Or an Instagram (Pixelfed).
Or a YouTube (PeerTube).
Or a Twitch (Owncast).
Or a Reddit (Lemmy, /kbin, Mbin, PieFed).
Or a Goodreads (BookWyrm).
Or whatever. There are over 150 different server applications in the Fediverse.
mastodon.social, where you are, is only one of over 10,000 big and small Twitters of the same kind (Mastodon).
If Mastodon was like Discord, all 10,000+ Mastodon servers would run in one and the same gigantic data centre in the USA, owned by Mastodon, Inc. And they would all be property of Mastodon, Inc.
If the Fediverse was like Discord, all 30,000+ Fediverse servers would run in one and the same gigantic data centre in the USA, owned by Mastodon, Inc. And they would all be property of Mastodon, Inc. Also, they would be fully identical in functionality.
But as I've said above: They're all running on their own separate machines. With their own separate owners.
And the different server applications have different developers, and they are being developed independently from one another.
Okay, now comes the kicker: These server applications are not walled up against one another. Not only are all instances of the same server applications (e.g. Mastodon) connected to each other, but all instances of one server application are also connected to all instances of all the other server applications.
Imagine you're on Twitter. But your new friend is on Facebook. You can't follow a Facebook user on Twitter, and you can't follow a Twitter user on Facebook.
In the Fediverse, you can. You can be on Twitter. And follow a Facebook user. Directly from Twitter. Without a Facebook account.
Only that they aren't named Twitter and Facebook in the Fediverse. Twitter is named Mastodon or Pleroma or Akkoma or Misskey or Calckey or Firefish or Iceshrimp or Sharkey or Catodon or... There are dozens of Twitter alternatives in the Fediverse. Well, and Facebook is named Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte.
You can be on Mastodon. And you can follow Friendica accounts. From Mastodon. Without a Friendica account.
This comment is a very good example. You are on Mastodon, created by @Eugen Rochko in 2016 as an alternative to Twitter that aimed to be as close to Twitter as possible.
The server that you're on, mastodon.social, is owned by Mastodon, Inc. and running on one or multiple rack servers in San Francisco, California, USA owned by Fastly.
I am on Hubzilla, created by @Mike Macgirvin
in 2012 by forking his own Friendica from 2010, and currently mainly maintained by @Mario Vavti and @Harald Eilertsen. Hubzilla has got nothing to do with Mastodon whatsoever. It started out as an alternative to Facebook, but not a clone, rather better than Facebook, with full-blown long-form blogging capability and a built-in file storage, and it has been enhanced greatly in functionality even beyond that.
The server that I'm on, Netzgemeinde, is owned and administered by @Mark Nowiasz, who has no affiliation with the Hubzilla developers, and running on a rack server in Nuremberg, Germany owned by Netcup.
And yet, you can see this comment coming from Hubzilla on Mastodon.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Server #Instance #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Calckey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Sharkey #Catodon #Meisskey #Tanukey #Neko #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Pixelfed #PeerTube #Owncast #Lemmy #/kbin #Mbin #PieFed #BookWyrm #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse
In the Fediverse, "server" doesn't mean "chatroom". It means "server". A computer.
For example, a rack computer with no screen and no keyboard and no mouse bolted into a server rack at a data centre.
Or an old laptop that someone had lying around or a Raspberry Pi mini-computer running at someone's home, connected to their landline.
On each one of these, a big or small Twitter can be running (Mastodon).
Or a wholly different Twitter (Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Calckey, Firefish, Iceshrimp, Sharkey, Catodon, Meisskey, Tanukey, Neko...).
(Here's the first important new thing for you to learn about the Fediverse: The Fediverse is not only Mastodon.)
Or a Facebook with a side of a blog and a cloud server (Friendica, (streams), Forte).
(Here's the second important new thing for you to learn about the Fediverse: The Fediverse is not only short-form microblogging. Look at this comment. Look at what I've done. Embedded links. Bold type. Impossible on Mastodon. But possible elsewhere in the Fediverse.)
Or a Facebook meets WordPress meets Google Cloud Services meets even more stuff on top (Hubzilla; this is where I am).
Or an Instagram (Pixelfed).
Or a YouTube (PeerTube).
Or a Twitch (Owncast).
Or a Reddit (Lemmy, /kbin, Mbin, PieFed).
Or a Goodreads (BookWyrm).
Or whatever. There are over 150 different server applications in the Fediverse.
mastodon.social, where you are, is only one of over 10,000 big and small Twitters of the same kind (Mastodon).
If Mastodon was like Discord, all 10,000+ Mastodon servers would run in one and the same gigantic data centre in the USA, owned by Mastodon, Inc. And they would all be property of Mastodon, Inc.
If the Fediverse was like Discord, all 30,000+ Fediverse servers would run in one and the same gigantic data centre in the USA, owned by Mastodon, Inc. And they would all be property of Mastodon, Inc. Also, they would be fully identical in functionality.
But as I've said above: They're all running on their own separate machines. With their own separate owners.
And the different server applications have different developers, and they are being developed independently from one another.
Okay, now comes the kicker: These server applications are not walled up against one another. Not only are all instances of the same server applications (e.g. Mastodon) connected to each other, but all instances of one server application are also connected to all instances of all the other server applications.
Imagine you're on Twitter. But your new friend is on Facebook. You can't follow a Facebook user on Twitter, and you can't follow a Twitter user on Facebook.
In the Fediverse, you can. You can be on Twitter. And follow a Facebook user. Directly from Twitter. Without a Facebook account.
Only that they aren't named Twitter and Facebook in the Fediverse. Twitter is named Mastodon or Pleroma or Akkoma or Misskey or Calckey or Firefish or Iceshrimp or Sharkey or Catodon or... There are dozens of Twitter alternatives in the Fediverse. Well, and Facebook is named Friendica or Hubzilla or (streams) or Forte.
You can be on Mastodon. And you can follow Friendica accounts. From Mastodon. Without a Friendica account.
This comment is a very good example. You are on Mastodon, created by @Eugen Rochko in 2016 as an alternative to Twitter that aimed to be as close to Twitter as possible.
The server that you're on, mastodon.social, is owned by Mastodon, Inc. and running on one or multiple rack servers in San Francisco, California, USA owned by Fastly.
I am on Hubzilla, created by @Mike Macgirvin
in 2012 by forking his own Friendica from 2010, and currently mainly maintained by @Mario Vavti and @Harald Eilertsen. Hubzilla has got nothing to do with Mastodon whatsoever. It started out as an alternative to Facebook, but not a clone, rather better than Facebook, with full-blown long-form blogging capability and a built-in file storage, and it has been enhanced greatly in functionality even beyond that.The server that I'm on, Netzgemeinde, is owned and administered by @Mark Nowiasz, who has no affiliation with the Hubzilla developers, and running on a rack server in Nuremberg, Germany owned by Netcup.
And yet, you can see this comment coming from Hubzilla on Mastodon.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Server #Instance #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Calckey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Sharkey #Catodon #Meisskey #Tanukey #Neko #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Pixelfed #PeerTube #Owncast #Lemmy #/kbin #Mbin #PieFed #BookWyrm #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse
GeeksforGeeks · What is a Server? - GeeksforGeeksA server is a hardware device or software that processes requests from clients over a network, providing various services such as data sharing, computation, and resource management in a client-server model.
Replied in thread
@Kevin Karhan :verified: To quote Arthur C. Clarke:
And for your average Musk escapees, Mastodon alone is more than sufficiently advanced. These people believe that there's some magic going on that makes their fully public posts private and secure regardless. They want perfect security, but with zero inconvenience, and they think Mastodon provides them with exactly this.
In fact, they expect Mastodon to be an absolutely perfectly safe haven, simply because it isn't a corporate silo. Little do they know how close to being a corporate silo Mastodon is, what with having a US-based company and a lighthouse instance that accounts for 22% of the whole Fediverse in terms of MAUs.
On top of that, more than half of all Mastodon users think the Fediverse is only Mastodon, and most of the rest can't imagine that anything in the Fediverse could possibly have features that Mastodon doesn't have. Not unless you slap them right into their faces like character limits over 500.
They cling hard to and rely on an imagination of the Fediverse that has never even been close to reality and never will.
As for The Bad Space, its blocklist looks like it's curated not by evidence, but by emotional triggers. Generally, some blocklists go so wild that you have to ask yourself whether the reason why nobody has tried to block out everything that isn't vanilla Mastodon is because that'd be too big an effort (two out of three Fediverse instances aren't Mastodon), or whether such people simply don't know how far the Fediverse extends beyond Mastodon, so they don't know what to block. I mean, there should be reasons enough to block everything that isn't Mastodon.
Blocklist import from other instances doesn't make things any better. Just like on all networks where everyone can run a server, the Fediverse, especially Mastodon, has got admins who really shouldn't run a server. It looks very tempting to pick blocklists by length rather than content, the longer, the more "secure", import a bunch of them, but not curate them because that'd be extra effort.
In this light, it's a good thing that Oliphant put the tier-1 to tier-3 blocklists onto the chopping block when switching from manual list curation to automated list aggregation a while ago. Especially tier 3 would have been easy to exploit with little to no curation, and there certainly were enough sufficiently paranoid Mastodon admins who'd subscribe to tier 3 without ever taking a single peek at the list.
Sometimes I feel like going to Mastodon's GitHub repository and submitting blocking or allowing entire Fediverse server applications by user agent, both for admins and for users, as a feature request, just to see what'll happen. Maybe dumbed down on the user side to a switch that blocks everything that isn't Mastodon. But maybe I should also mention that (streams) already has this feature on the admin side so that the Mastodon devs have to think up a way to sell this as invented by Mastodon.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Blocklist #Blocklists #BlocklistMeta #CWBlocklistMeta
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
And for your average Musk escapees, Mastodon alone is more than sufficiently advanced. These people believe that there's some magic going on that makes their fully public posts private and secure regardless. They want perfect security, but with zero inconvenience, and they think Mastodon provides them with exactly this.
In fact, they expect Mastodon to be an absolutely perfectly safe haven, simply because it isn't a corporate silo. Little do they know how close to being a corporate silo Mastodon is, what with having a US-based company and a lighthouse instance that accounts for 22% of the whole Fediverse in terms of MAUs.
On top of that, more than half of all Mastodon users think the Fediverse is only Mastodon, and most of the rest can't imagine that anything in the Fediverse could possibly have features that Mastodon doesn't have. Not unless you slap them right into their faces like character limits over 500.
They cling hard to and rely on an imagination of the Fediverse that has never even been close to reality and never will.
As for The Bad Space, its blocklist looks like it's curated not by evidence, but by emotional triggers. Generally, some blocklists go so wild that you have to ask yourself whether the reason why nobody has tried to block out everything that isn't vanilla Mastodon is because that'd be too big an effort (two out of three Fediverse instances aren't Mastodon), or whether such people simply don't know how far the Fediverse extends beyond Mastodon, so they don't know what to block. I mean, there should be reasons enough to block everything that isn't Mastodon.
Blocklist import from other instances doesn't make things any better. Just like on all networks where everyone can run a server, the Fediverse, especially Mastodon, has got admins who really shouldn't run a server. It looks very tempting to pick blocklists by length rather than content, the longer, the more "secure", import a bunch of them, but not curate them because that'd be extra effort.
In this light, it's a good thing that Oliphant put the tier-1 to tier-3 blocklists onto the chopping block when switching from manual list curation to automated list aggregation a while ago. Especially tier 3 would have been easy to exploit with little to no curation, and there certainly were enough sufficiently paranoid Mastodon admins who'd subscribe to tier 3 without ever taking a single peek at the list.
Sometimes I feel like going to Mastodon's GitHub repository and submitting blocking or allowing entire Fediverse server applications by user agent, both for admins and for users, as a feature request, just to see what'll happen. Maybe dumbed down on the user side to a switch that blocks everything that isn't Mastodon. But maybe I should also mention that (streams) already has this feature on the admin side so that the Mastodon devs have to think up a way to sell this as invented by Mastodon.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Blocklist #Blocklists #BlocklistMeta #CWBlocklistMeta
NodeBB Community · With the advent of FediCheck, there will be big changes to the Oliphant blocklists in the future.I've always said the list project I'm doing is an "interim step on the road to something better."FediCheck is the "something better", at least so far as wh...With the advent of FediCheck, there will be big changes to the Oliphant blocklists in the future.I've always said the list project I'm doing is an "interim s...
Replied in thread
@Mike McCue What are the chances that the ActivityPub side will get full (or any) support for Pleroma and its forks, Misskey and its forks, Friendica and other things that use the Mastodon client API?
Or even server applications that can speak ActivityPub, but that don't have the Mastodon client API implemented?
I sincerely hope that Surf isn't built against only Mastodon so hard that it's impossible to add more than just incidental and unsupported compatibility with anything that isn't Mastodon.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #ActivityPub #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse
Or even server applications that can speak ActivityPub, but that don't have the Mastodon client API implemented?
I sincerely hope that Surf isn't built against only Mastodon so hard that it's impossible to add more than just incidental and unsupported compatibility with anything that isn't Mastodon.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #ActivityPub #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
Replied in thread
@David Palk#RejoinEU 
Fediverse?
She said she only wants Mastodon users to participate.
I'm on Hubzilla. I'm in the Fediverse, but not part of the the target audience of this study.
#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse
Fediverse?She said she only wants Mastodon users to participate.
I'm on Hubzilla. I'm in the Fediverse, but not part of the the target audience of this study.
#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
Replied in thread
@Raccoon at TechHub :mastodon:
You don't even need Mastodon forks to stay in the Fediverse.
There's enough stuff in the Fediverse that can do the same things as Mastodon, that's fully connected to and federated with Mastodon, but that isn't Mastodon, that has never been Mastodon, that isn't affliliated with Mastodon, and that outshines Mastodon as well as its forks in many ways.
(Sent from Hubzilla.)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse
we would just move on and let the forks pick up where he'd left off.
You don't even need Mastodon forks to stay in the Fediverse.
There's enough stuff in the Fediverse that can do the same things as Mastodon, that's fully connected to and federated with Mastodon, but that isn't Mastodon, that has never been Mastodon, that isn't affliliated with Mastodon, and that outshines Mastodon as well as its forks in many ways.
(Sent from Hubzilla.)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse
joinfediverse.wikiHubzilla - Join the Fediverse
Replied in thread
@Tim Chambers It's sad that it's always Bluesky, Threads and Mastodon. The Fediverse is only represented by Mastodon, only Mastodon and nothing but Mastodon, as if there's nothing else. Always.
The Fediverse's quality in microblogging is always measured in what vanilla Mastodon can and can't do. If Mastodon lacks something, the Fediverse lacks it.
But the Fediverse is not only Mastodon. Not even in terms of microblogging.
Pleroma is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.
Akkoma is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.
Misskey is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.
Firefish is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.
Iceshrimp is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.
Sharkey is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.
Catodon is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.
Mitra is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.
And that's only a selection.
None of them are related to Mastodon. None of them have even a grain of Mastodon in them. They're fully independent developments.
Feature-wise, they all blow Bluesky and Threads and Mastodon out of the water. In fact, if you want "the Fediverse", read, Mastodon to have a certain feature, Misskey probably has it right now. If Misskey doesn't, Iceshrimp or Sharkey may have it. And that doesn't say anything about the more Facebook-like and even more powerful parts of the Fediverse yet.
If Mastodon wants to evolve, it will first have to catch up to the rest of the Fediverse.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Sharkey #Catodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse
The Fediverse's quality in microblogging is always measured in what vanilla Mastodon can and can't do. If Mastodon lacks something, the Fediverse lacks it.
But the Fediverse is not only Mastodon. Not even in terms of microblogging.
Pleroma is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.
Akkoma is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.
Misskey is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.
Firefish is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.
Iceshrimp is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.
Sharkey is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.
Catodon is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.
Mitra is microblogging, part of the Fediverse and federated with Mastodon.
And that's only a selection.
None of them are related to Mastodon. None of them have even a grain of Mastodon in them. They're fully independent developments.
Feature-wise, they all blow Bluesky and Threads and Mastodon out of the water. In fact, if you want "the Fediverse", read, Mastodon to have a certain feature, Misskey probably has it right now. If Misskey doesn't, Iceshrimp or Sharkey may have it. And that doesn't say anything about the more Facebook-like and even more powerful parts of the Fediverse yet.
If Mastodon wants to evolve, it will first have to catch up to the rest of the Fediverse.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Sharkey #Catodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse
Indieweb.Social Tim Chambers (@tchambers@indieweb.social)53.9K Posts, 4.74K Following, 16.9K Followers · Technologist, writer, admin of indieweb.social. Fascinated by how new politics impacts technology and vice versa. #fedi22 #indieweb #fediverse
Replied in thread
@Ringwood Unitarians Co-organis
If one searches.
If one wants to search.
If one suspects there to be something else out there in the Fediverse.
But for many Mastodon users, the Fediverse is Mastodon and only Mastodon, and that's an absolutely undeniable fact. Set in stone. It couldn't possibly be any different. They don't even take into consideration that it could be any different. "Fediverse" is the name of the Mastodon network which is nothing but Mastodon and more Mastodon. Full stop.
Why else do so many Mastodon users use "Fediverse" and "Mastodon" mutually exchangeably or even out-right claim that the Fediverse is only Mastodon with such utter confidence?
Why else does the revelation that something that isn't Mastodon is connected to Mastodon and claims its place in the Fediverse leave so many Mastodon users deranged enough to generously dish out mutes and blocks in an attempt to make the Fediverse only Mastodon again, or at least make it feel like it's still only Mastodon?
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse
But there are loads of pictures out there if one searches. Three attached.
If one searches.
If one wants to search.
If one suspects there to be something else out there in the Fediverse.
But for many Mastodon users, the Fediverse is Mastodon and only Mastodon, and that's an absolutely undeniable fact. Set in stone. It couldn't possibly be any different. They don't even take into consideration that it could be any different. "Fediverse" is the name of the Mastodon network which is nothing but Mastodon and more Mastodon. Full stop.
Why else do so many Mastodon users use "Fediverse" and "Mastodon" mutually exchangeably or even out-right claim that the Fediverse is only Mastodon with such utter confidence?
Why else does the revelation that something that isn't Mastodon is connected to Mastodon and claims its place in the Fediverse leave so many Mastodon users deranged enough to generously dish out mutes and blocks in an attempt to make the Fediverse only Mastodon again, or at least make it feel like it's still only Mastodon?
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
Replied in thread
@crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts Or Calckey. Both mop the floor with all three.
CC: @Marcus Anthony Cyganiak
#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Threads #MetaPlatforms #Bluesky #Calckey
CC: @Marcus Anthony Cyganiak
#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Threads #MetaPlatforms #Bluesky #Calckey
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
@crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts You should have brazenly said, "Iceshrimp," to drive the points home that a) the Fediverse is not Mastodon, and b) there's much better stuff in the Fediverse itself for microblogging than Mastodon. Better than Threads and Bluesky anyway.
CC: @Marcus Anthony Cyganiak
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Threads #MetaPlatforms #Bluesky #Iceshrimp
CC: @Marcus Anthony Cyganiak
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Threads #MetaPlatforms #Bluesky #Iceshrimp
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
Replied in thread
@Scott M. Stolz That, and they've never been told that something, anything, exists in the Fediverse outside of Mastodon that's connected to Mastodon. Whoever pulled them on board either deemed this information unnecessary or confusing, or they didn't know it themselves either.
These people only learn about the existence of a Fediverse outside of Mastodon either from a post that does loads of things which are completely impossible on Mastodon or from a reply guy on Akkoma, Firefish, Friendica, Hubzilla etc.
At least this guy did not freak out when he learned about the existence of a Fediverse outside of Mastodon. That is, I don't know how he'll react once a very un-Mastodon post hits his timeline.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Akkoma #Firefish #Friendica #Hubzilla #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #ReplyGuy #Fedisplaining
These people only learn about the existence of a Fediverse outside of Mastodon either from a post that does loads of things which are completely impossible on Mastodon or from a reply guy on Akkoma, Firefish, Friendica, Hubzilla etc.
At least this guy did not freak out when he learned about the existence of a Fediverse outside of Mastodon. That is, I don't know how he'll react once a very un-Mastodon post hits his timeline.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #Akkoma #Firefish #Friendica #Hubzilla #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #ReplyGuy #Fedisplaining
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
Replied in thread
@The Nexus of Privacy A remark on "A Tale of Two Prototypes": The Fediverse did not start with Mastodon.
You wrote that, quote,
End quote.
No, they didn't. Mastodon and Glitch invented next to nothing. It has all been there before 2016, before Mastodon, just like the Fediverse itself.
Allow me to quote-post myself:
Jupiter Rowland schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Tue, 05 Nov 2024 20:38:26 +0100 Three golden rules for the Fediverse.
One: Whatever you think Eugen Rochko has invented in the Fediverse was most certainly actually invented by either Evan Prodromou or Mike Macgirvin long before Mastodon.
Two: If you think the Fediverse should introduce a feature because Mastodon doesn't have it, the Fediverse most certainly does have it because any one of Mike Macgirvin's creations (Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and/or Forte) has it. It's likely that other projects have it, too. And if it's on Friendica or Hubzilla, they've had it before Mastodon was made.
Three: At no point in history has the Fediverse ever been only Mastodon.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fedi #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fedi #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse
You wrote that, quote,
Mastodon and its forks have also prototyped
[...]
- A consent-based culture that (while imperfect and intermittent) points to a very different path than surveillance capitalism
- A real-life testbed for all the complexities of decentralized moderation and federated diplomacy
- A protocol-based platform for (somewhat) interoperaable social media operations
End quote.
No, they didn't. Mastodon and Glitch invented next to nothing. It has all been there before 2016, before Mastodon, just like the Fediverse itself.
Allow me to quote-post myself:
Jupiter Rowland schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Tue, 05 Nov 2024 20:38:26 +0100 Three golden rules for the Fediverse.
One: Whatever you think Eugen Rochko has invented in the Fediverse was most certainly actually invented by either Evan Prodromou or Mike Macgirvin long before Mastodon.
Two: If you think the Fediverse should introduce a feature because Mastodon doesn't have it, the Fediverse most certainly does have it because any one of Mike Macgirvin's creations (Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and/or Forte) has it. It's likely that other projects have it, too. And if it's on Friendica or Hubzilla, they've had it before Mastodon was made.
Three: At no point in history has the Fediverse ever been only Mastodon.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fedi #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fedi #Fediverse #Mastodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse
The Nexus Of Privacy · The free fediverses should focus on consent (including consent-based federation), privacy, and safetyPart 2 of Strategies for the free fediverses
Replied in thread
@Stefan Bohacek
These "privacy and safety features" are non-sense.
They're proprietary, they're non-standard, they're Mastodon-specific. And they are expected to work only by respecting a proprietary, non-standard, Mastodon-specific quote-post permission flag which probably won't even be documented anywhere except Mastodon's server code.
The opt-out feature will only work within a 100% Mastodon bubble and even that only if no non-Mastodon user finds content from within this bubble by searching mastodon.social for hashtags.
Mastodon is selling its whole quote-post feature as a total revolution, as the very introduction of quote-posts to the Fediverse. And it will work. I've once run a poll on whether the Fediverse has quote-posts. 71% of all voters thought the Fediverse does not have quote-posts right now. And that was in my bubble which, in comparison to Mastodon in general, is fairly Fediverse-savvy and full of non-Mastodon users.
But as a matter of fact, the Fediverse does have quote-posts right now! Almost everything that can do microblogging in a way has quote-posts.
Pleroma has quote-posts.
Akkoma has quote-posts.
Misskey has quote-posts.
Firefish has quote-posts.
Iceshrimp has quote-posts.
Iceshrimp.NET has quote-posts.
Sharkey has quote-posts.
Catodon has quote-posts.
Friendica has quote-posts.
Hubzilla has quote-posts.
(streams) has quote-posts.
And so forth.
They haven't introduced quote-posts to spite Mastodon. Some of them have had quote-posts since before Mastodon even existed. Friendica, for example, was created with quote-posts available, and that was five and a half years before Mastodon was created. For as long as Mastodon has existed, Friendica could quote-post Mastodon toots. And so could Hubzilla, created ten months before Mastodon.
In fact, all of the above can quote-post any Mastodon toot right now, with no problems, with zero resistance.
Guess what'll change when Mastodon introduces quote-posts plus the opt-in switch.
Well, Mastodon will be able to quote-post. Mastodon might be able to display quote-posts from outside properly, but probably not because it's ignoring that the rest of the Fediverse can quote-post.
But the rest of the Fediverse will still be able to quote-post just about all Mastodon toots. With no problems. With zero resistance. Even with the opt-in switched to off.
Because that switch is proprietary, non-standard and Mastodon-specific. Because only Mastodon even supports it.
This switch will cause many many more Mastodon users to learn the hard way that the Fediverse is more than Mastodon. Namely by encountering a post or comment from something that does not behave like Mastodon. And many many more Mastodon users will shit bricks in sheer terror upon this revelation.
If Mastodon really wanted this switch to be 100% waterproof, it would have to implement the feature request in its entirety. That includes defederation from all Fediverse instances that don't respect the opt-in switch.
Mind you, the defederation clause and the entire feature request came from someone in the firm belief that the Fediverse is Mastodon, only Mastodon and nothing but Mastodon. Just like about every other Mastodon user out there. So it was only targetted at rogue Mastodon instances with hacked source code.
In reality, however, it would require entire non-Mastodon Fediverse projects to be Fediblocked because they can quote-post without respecting Mastodon's quote-post opt-in switch.
All instances of Pleroma, of Akkoma, of Misskey, of Firefish, of Iceshrimp including Iceshrimp.NET, of Sharkey, of Catodon, of Friendica, of Hubzilla, of (streams) and so forth would have to be Fediblocked because they can quote-post without respecting Mastodon's quote-post opt-in switch. Every last one of them.
Mastodon's quote-post feature will either cause a rift through the Fediverse if this rule is put into action or even more people to shit bricks in terror and escape to Bluesky if it isn't.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Fedisplaining #CWFedisplaining #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp.NET #Sharkey #Catodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #FediblockMeta
Also worth mentioning that quote boosts, which have also recently received funding, will include work on privacy and safety features around them, possibly extending to other areas of the online experience.
These "privacy and safety features" are non-sense.
They're proprietary, they're non-standard, they're Mastodon-specific. And they are expected to work only by respecting a proprietary, non-standard, Mastodon-specific quote-post permission flag which probably won't even be documented anywhere except Mastodon's server code.
The opt-out feature will only work within a 100% Mastodon bubble and even that only if no non-Mastodon user finds content from within this bubble by searching mastodon.social for hashtags.
Mastodon is selling its whole quote-post feature as a total revolution, as the very introduction of quote-posts to the Fediverse. And it will work. I've once run a poll on whether the Fediverse has quote-posts. 71% of all voters thought the Fediverse does not have quote-posts right now. And that was in my bubble which, in comparison to Mastodon in general, is fairly Fediverse-savvy and full of non-Mastodon users.
But as a matter of fact, the Fediverse does have quote-posts right now! Almost everything that can do microblogging in a way has quote-posts.
Pleroma has quote-posts.
Akkoma has quote-posts.
Misskey has quote-posts.
Firefish has quote-posts.
Iceshrimp has quote-posts.
Iceshrimp.NET has quote-posts.
Sharkey has quote-posts.
Catodon has quote-posts.
Friendica has quote-posts.
Hubzilla has quote-posts.
(streams) has quote-posts.
And so forth.
They haven't introduced quote-posts to spite Mastodon. Some of them have had quote-posts since before Mastodon even existed. Friendica, for example, was created with quote-posts available, and that was five and a half years before Mastodon was created. For as long as Mastodon has existed, Friendica could quote-post Mastodon toots. And so could Hubzilla, created ten months before Mastodon.
In fact, all of the above can quote-post any Mastodon toot right now, with no problems, with zero resistance.
Guess what'll change when Mastodon introduces quote-posts plus the opt-in switch.
Well, Mastodon will be able to quote-post. Mastodon might be able to display quote-posts from outside properly, but probably not because it's ignoring that the rest of the Fediverse can quote-post.
But the rest of the Fediverse will still be able to quote-post just about all Mastodon toots. With no problems. With zero resistance. Even with the opt-in switched to off.
Because that switch is proprietary, non-standard and Mastodon-specific. Because only Mastodon even supports it.
This switch will cause many many more Mastodon users to learn the hard way that the Fediverse is more than Mastodon. Namely by encountering a post or comment from something that does not behave like Mastodon. And many many more Mastodon users will shit bricks in sheer terror upon this revelation.
If Mastodon really wanted this switch to be 100% waterproof, it would have to implement the feature request in its entirety. That includes defederation from all Fediverse instances that don't respect the opt-in switch.
Mind you, the defederation clause and the entire feature request came from someone in the firm belief that the Fediverse is Mastodon, only Mastodon and nothing but Mastodon. Just like about every other Mastodon user out there. So it was only targetted at rogue Mastodon instances with hacked source code.
In reality, however, it would require entire non-Mastodon Fediverse projects to be Fediblocked because they can quote-post without respecting Mastodon's quote-post opt-in switch.
All instances of Pleroma, of Akkoma, of Misskey, of Firefish, of Iceshrimp including Iceshrimp.NET, of Sharkey, of Catodon, of Friendica, of Hubzilla, of (streams) and so forth would have to be Fediblocked because they can quote-post without respecting Mastodon's quote-post opt-in switch. Every last one of them.
Mastodon's quote-post feature will either cause a rift through the Fediverse if this rule is put into action or even more people to shit bricks in terror and escape to Bluesky if it isn't.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Fedisplaining #CWFedisplaining #QuotePost #QuotePosts #QuoteTweet #QuoteTweets #QuoteToot #QuoteToots #QuoteBoost #QuoteBoosts #QuotedShares #QuotePostDebate #QuoteTootDebate #Pleroma #Akkoma #Misskey #Forkey #Forkeys #Firefish #Iceshrimp #Iceshrimp.NET #Sharkey #Catodon #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #FediblockMeta
Replied in thread
@Newsmast @Michael Foster Okay. So Fediverse 1.0 was allegedly Mastodon, only Mastodon and nothing but Mastodon.
Fediverse 2.0 is entirely commercial, corporate and mostly centralised silos: Flipboard, WordPress, Ghost, Threads.
Which iteration of the Fediverse will finally acknowledge the existence of Friendica which is five and a half years older than Mastodon, and which federated with Mastodon the very instance that Mastodon was launched?
The existence of Hubzilla which is still ten months older than Mastodon, which also federated with Mastodon when the latter was launched, and which was actually the first Fediverse project to introduce ActivityPub, two months before Mastodon?
Pleroma? Akkoma? Misskey? Firefish? Iceshrimp? Sharkey? Catodon? Mitra? Socialhome? GoToSocial? Lemmy? /kbin? Mbin? PieFed? Sublinks? Pixelfed? Funkwhale? Castopod? PeerTube? Owncast? Mobilizon? Gancio? BookWyrm? Inventaire? And all the others?
Mastodon's current "market share" in the free, decentralised Fediverse is some 70%. Not 100%. Even though the Fediverse feels like 100% Mastodon when you're on Mastodon. But it isn't.
At no point in the history of the Fediverse has it ever been only Mastodon. @Evan Prodromou, whom the blog post mentions, can confirm that. After all, it was him who invented the Fediverse. Twice as long ago as Rochko invented Mastodon.
By the way: If the Fediverse was only Mastodon, you couldn't read this.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse
Fediverse 2.0 is entirely commercial, corporate and mostly centralised silos: Flipboard, WordPress, Ghost, Threads.
Which iteration of the Fediverse will finally acknowledge the existence of Friendica which is five and a half years older than Mastodon, and which federated with Mastodon the very instance that Mastodon was launched?
The existence of Hubzilla which is still ten months older than Mastodon, which also federated with Mastodon when the latter was launched, and which was actually the first Fediverse project to introduce ActivityPub, two months before Mastodon?
Pleroma? Akkoma? Misskey? Firefish? Iceshrimp? Sharkey? Catodon? Mitra? Socialhome? GoToSocial? Lemmy? /kbin? Mbin? PieFed? Sublinks? Pixelfed? Funkwhale? Castopod? PeerTube? Owncast? Mobilizon? Gancio? BookWyrm? Inventaire? And all the others?
Mastodon's current "market share" in the free, decentralised Fediverse is some 70%. Not 100%. Even though the Fediverse feels like 100% Mastodon when you're on Mastodon. But it isn't.
At no point in the history of the Fediverse has it ever been only Mastodon. @Evan Prodromou, whom the blog post mentions, can confirm that. After all, it was him who invented the Fediverse. Twice as long ago as Rochko invented Mastodon.
By the way: If the Fediverse was only Mastodon, you couldn't read this.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
Replied in thread
@Tokyo Outsider (337ppm) To probably not exactly few on Mastodon, if someone replies to them who isn't mutually connected to them, and whom they haven't mentioned earlier in the same thread, it's reply-guying, mansplaining and out-right, full-blown harassment.
No matter if this behaviour has been totally normal in the Fediverse outside of Mastodon since at least 2010. For comparison, Mastodon is from 2016.
No matter how many people would still think the Fediverse = Mastodon if nobody from outside Mastodon had ever done this to tell them otherwise.
I'm seriously, the only reason why there isn't a huge outcry and a massive campaign to try and have everything that isn't Mastodon Fediblocked from Mastodon is because every other Mastodon user doesn't even know that there's anything else than Mastodon in the Fediverse, and most of the rest don't know what "disturbing", non-Mastodon-like things the non-Mastodon Fediverse is capable of doing.
And to everyone who thinks they can pressure the non-Mastodon Fediverse into abandoning its own cultures and adopting Mastodon's post-Twitter takeover culture, along with also abandoning all the features they have which Mastodon doesn't, I have a bridge to sell.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #FediblockMeta #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #ReplyGuy #ReplyGuys #Mansplaining #Harassment
No matter if this behaviour has been totally normal in the Fediverse outside of Mastodon since at least 2010. For comparison, Mastodon is from 2016.
No matter how many people would still think the Fediverse = Mastodon if nobody from outside Mastodon had ever done this to tell them otherwise.
I'm seriously, the only reason why there isn't a huge outcry and a massive campaign to try and have everything that isn't Mastodon Fediblocked from Mastodon is because every other Mastodon user doesn't even know that there's anything else than Mastodon in the Fediverse, and most of the rest don't know what "disturbing", non-Mastodon-like things the non-Mastodon Fediverse is capable of doing.
And to everyone who thinks they can pressure the non-Mastodon Fediverse into abandoning its own cultures and adopting Mastodon's post-Twitter takeover culture, along with also abandoning all the features they have which Mastodon doesn't, I have a bridge to sell.
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #FediblockMeta #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #ReplyGuy #ReplyGuys #Mansplaining #Harassment
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla